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um

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welcome to another vip episode of hero

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paranormal podcast

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broadcasting from the base at la madre

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mountain

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just south of area 51 my name

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is ryan the original outlaw of the

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airwaves

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bringing you a hum dinger of an

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epic episode tonight

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firstly i'd like to say what an honor it

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was to finally talk to

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my guest and uh secondly

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that he was well he wins the award so

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far for the most accommodating guest

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uh that's been on ever so you'll see

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um as soon as we get to talk to him so

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helpful everything went so well

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thank him in advance for that thank you

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terry

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he's grateful to have survived

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devil's den and he's not on a mission to

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change people's minds about ufos or the

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existence

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of alien life but it's a story that has

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to be heard

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he's going to explain why that is and go

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into the detail

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about the incident at devil's den one of

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the

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freakiest and

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well in my opinion you just have to get

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the book

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but we're going to discuss the ins and

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outs

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of the incident at devil's den

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definitely

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look on amazon pick the book up because

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it was 1977 and he is going to paint

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us a picture of what was happening over

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that

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may just have to get the book there's so

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much that he can't

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i mean he could talk for days and not

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cover what the book has so please go to

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amazon

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check out the book incident at devil's

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den

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and uh if you haven't gone and checked

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out hero paranormal

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please go to heroparanormal.com feel

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free to

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subscribe on many platforms we're on

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spotify now

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patreon i can't keep track of them all

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to be honest with you

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and uh of course the uh youtube the

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regular

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mainstay stuff and social media as well

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so

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um oh and anchor that's i mean i really

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anchor is

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is a great platform i really recommend

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anchor to

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absolutely anyone thinking about

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podcasting it is

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if i would have known about anchor when

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i started my life would have been

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so much easier podbean is

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also another great great

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tool that can be used so check those out

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and

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uh check out heroparanormal.com

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we have the president of the united

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states with

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covid19 and the first lady a lot going

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on uh and i think

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we're going to have someone that well

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our audience our

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our hardcore patron listeners are very

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familiar with i'm not going to spill the

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name yet but

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we're gonna have a guest that is going

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to dissect the political arena

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and maybe uh

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give us something to look forward to

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because it's

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2020 is just really handing it to us so

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far

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a lot of the stuff that's in the book

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the incident at the devil's den

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sounds eerily familiar to incidents in

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the uintah basin of utah

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and other areas worldwide that people

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just kind of seem to

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skim over and not really give attention

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to so

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pay attention to what terry is going to

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go into detail about

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he is beyond a doubt

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uh gosh such a good

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author in how he paints the picture of

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what

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happened back in 1977 i can't stress

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enough

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um what a good author is what quality

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writing it is

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and it really puts you in the moment

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before we speak with terry i want to go

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into a little bit about

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the area which native american tribes

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have well they've measured the area

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as far as being a little bit strange

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uh there's a reason it's got its name

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devil's den

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but more than that terry sent me a ton

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of photographs

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and he's really gone back

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and looked into the written record uh

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significant battles fought and

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you know it's not just documenting his

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experience

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his book really goes into detail about

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all aspects about this

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amazing experience it's that bad dream

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you wish you never had and uh and terry

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does such a good job of explaining it

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i just can't wait to have him on

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if you didn't check out our last patron

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episode

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oh my gosh it is epic i can't stress

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enough some of these patron episodes go

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into

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deep deep details so thanks to the

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patrons you guys are getting

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some seriously awesome stuff i'll try to

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keep it coming

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as fast and as consistently as possible

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thanks for

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your patience when i'm on the road over

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landing and jumping from one paranormal

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hotspot to another as i have been it's

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been

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very difficult to record be on the road

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be in the truck i mean it's tough and

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they're not small drives

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a lot of these places are you know the

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uinta basin of utah is very far from

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nevada

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uh from where i'm at and

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it is uh also very far from some of the

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other areas

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that i'm going to and but i'll keep

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those coming i try to update

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social media as possible and

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um yeah i can't keep c steady content

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stream non-stop like some people can

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because i'm not

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tied to my desk i'm actually out doing

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stuff and i've got a family too so

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that's tough and

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everybody's got to make a living and

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this is not my

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primary source of income so that's

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difficult

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it's more of a passion project i guess

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and that's that's a good thing

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so um i want to keep it that way let's

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keep it

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rocking we're going to bring the heat

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tonight take a seat

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pour a cup of your good good beverage

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whatever that is

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and get ready for terry levelace to

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paint you a picture

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of 1977. the incident at devil's den

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terry welcome to the hero paranormal

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podcast my man

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how are you i'm good i'm good man

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oh i'm so honored to finally talk to you

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i'll tell you out of

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all the cases i come across a lot of the

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cases

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that i come across you know they leave

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impressions on me but

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of all the cases and and first kudos on

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your book the writing is phenomenal

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it really puts you in the moment

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and you know it it takes you there for

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all of our audience um and

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we really appreciate that thank you yeah

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it is

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i wanted to ask you so it's it's i don't

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know where to start i have

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so many questions and that's that's the

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problem here this has

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the fingerprints of so many different

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things all over it i mean you could go

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in the 4-1-1

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you know like missing 4-1-1 direction uh

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you could go

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in a lot of different directions it's

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1977.

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put us there in that state park with you

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and kind of let's let's go into detail

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about the incident

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at devil's den sure

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i'm happy to um just a little bit of

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background

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i i was working with a guy i know we

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have 45 minutes and that's

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that's a little light so i'll cut to the

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chase

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a friend of mine named toby we worked

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together we were both first responders

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we were medics and emts

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in the air force stationed at whiteman

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air force base about 80 miles or so

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kansas city near sedalia missouri

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but in the middle of nowhere was just

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nothing

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uh attacked base with nuclear-armed

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b-52s

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and then there were minutemen two icbm

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missile silos scattered all over the all

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over the countryside all over the

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farmland

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so i um i was an amateur photographer i

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had a new camera i wanted to use my

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friend toby

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was a sky watcher he wanted to see the

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night stars without any

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light pollution and so so my my friend

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says one night to me

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we work the night shift 11 p.m to uh 8

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a.m

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and he says hey man i got an idea let's

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go camping

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and i'm like toby ann are you nuts i

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mean i

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grew up in st louis city he grew up in

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flint michigan

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i'm like you know what do we know about

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camping he's just like hey man it ain't

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rocket science let's just uh let's just

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go

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and i was against the idea initially and

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then it uh

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within 48 hours it grew on me and became

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almost obsessive uh

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so we we planned a long weekend uh in

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june

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of 1977 i believe the day was saturday

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june 11.

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and we packed my car got full tank of

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gas in my own 66

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chevy and we had it south

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and the uh there were a whole bunch of

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missteps i won't take time to go into

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them but i'll just give you a couple

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examples

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my camera bag with my camera equipment

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and

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inept i left the camera on the kitchen

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counter

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which i mean toby brought his camera so

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it wasn't like we didn't have one it's

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just i didn't have mine

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and that was kind of the purpose of the

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exercise i wanted to photograph eagles

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so on the way down toby says you know

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we're not going to stay in the

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campground

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and i said well why would we not stay in

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the campground

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you know why we why would we not want

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hot showers and running electricity

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and he's like no think about it man if

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if if we're there

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in a campsite we're gonna have campers

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to the right of us campers to the left

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of us

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we're gonna have our little tent they're

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gonna have their you know demon

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sea children running all over the place

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and um

287
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:37,360
you know i the light pollution is gonna

288
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:38,959
prevent me from getting a decent view of

289
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:40,320
the night sky

290
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:41,600
and he says what are you going to take

291
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:43,600
pictures of you know and

292
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:46,720
i said yeah i guess you're right

293
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:49,200
so we made a decision there's a area

294
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:50,000
that that's

295
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,600
um kind of uh

296
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:56,160
segregated from the park we thought it

297
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,680
was a nature preserve

298
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:59,519
uh because there was a sign across the

299
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,880
road that says you know

300
00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:03,279
very sternly worded sign across the road

301
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,200
that says keep out do not enter

302
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:07,040
no hunting hiking fishing shooting

303
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:08,240
whatever

304
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:11,920
and um we pulled up to that chain

305
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:14,560
uh we've been on pavement then degraded

306
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:16,160
to gravel and finally we're on a dirt

307
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:17,360
road

308
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:20,399
and uh i said i guess we'll turn around

309
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,279
my buddy says no

310
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:23,519
hang on he hopped out of the car and

311
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,200
what the rangers had done is i guess we

312
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,720
were too lazy to use the lock and key

313
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:28,079
they'd taken a padlock

314
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,760
and locked the uh the chain

315
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:34,320
around itself to form a loop and then

316
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:35,920
just draped it over a nail on the

317
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:37,600
opposite post

318
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:39,440
so all toby had to do is get up and lift

319
00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:41,120
up the chain drop it just out of the

320
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,680
ground

321
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:44,959
and we're like cool and uh

322
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:48,160
and we and we rolled in and we uh

323
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:50,079
i mean i knew we were trespassing but i

324
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:50,959
thought you know what's the worst

325
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,519
they're going to do

326
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,680
is throw us out i mean it's not not the

327
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,839
crime of the century

328
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,760
what we didn't know was the land that we

329
00:13:03,670 --> 00:12:58,959
were on uh

330
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,990
and i can't find out who manages the the

331
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:07,760
best answer i get is the bureau of land

332
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:09,839
management but that's kind of

333
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:13,360
not really clear um

334
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:16,240
the there's a high plateau i think it

335
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:17,760
sent you a photograph of it

336
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:22,639
yes there's a high plateau um

337
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,760
out in the middle of nowhere remote area

338
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:27,920
uh you can see some like farm buildings

339
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:29,360
are

340
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:30,880
you know like maybe where they keep

341
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:33,839
tractors and stuff

342
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,639
but it's still back in 77 it was much

343
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:38,160
very very remote

344
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,360
and uh we drove in and

345
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:44,000
uh you know through some lucky

346
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,440
navigating found

347
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,480
a way up this uh plateau and it was a

348
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,399
steep plateau

349
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:53,040
and we went up the hill and now we

350
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:54,639
crested the hill

351
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:57,680
and there was this beautiful metal uh

352
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:00,160
full of like great blooming wildflowers

353
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:01,760
and

354
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:05,760
high enough

355
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:08,800
that we had a view of the treetops

356
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:10,480
which i thought you know i used toby's

357
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,399
camera but uh you know maybe i get some

358
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,399
nice photographs of eagles

359
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,519
so uh yeah we were on top of the world

360
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:18,959
we uh we

361
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:21,680
thought this was great and uh we set up

362
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,880
our camp

363
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,639
and we did uh even though we were

364
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,160
novices we did all the

365
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:28,639
the fun stuff you do when you camp you

366
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:29,199
know

367
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:32,880
made a bonfire and cooked hot dogs and

368
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:36,560
uh after we we were kicked back on these

369
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,440
we had our tent

370
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,920
set up in back of us we were off set we

371
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:41,120
weren't in the middle of the meadow we

372
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:41,760
were near

373
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,800
the tree line and uh

374
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,560
tent was in back of us and then we had

375
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,800
our campfire that separated we had two

376
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,880
air mattresses one each one a piece

377
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,880
and we were separated by about eight

378
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:54,880
feet maybe

379
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:57,600
put the fire in the middle uh and it was

380
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:58,079
pleasant

381
00:15:01,990 --> 00:14:59,680
it was night time it had cooled down

382
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,000
some there was a nice breeze

383
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,959
and um there came a roll in our

384
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,320
conversation

385
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,440
and it got quiet and i

386
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,199
and it sounds cliche i mean i almost

387
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,959
want to apologize for saying it but it's

388
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:14,079
true

389
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:17,120
um all the all the noises

390
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:19,040
of the forest the crickets the tree

391
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:21,519
frogs all the stuff out there that

392
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,519
chirps at night went silent

393
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,920
and not only that but the breeze stopped

394
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:29,680
i thought that was odd that those two

395
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,399
events

396
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:32,880
happened in concert the breeze stopped

397
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,519
and the insects stopped

398
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,199
and you know i asked my friend is toby

399
00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:38,959
is this normal man you know like he's

400
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:39,600
gonna know

401
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,959
you know and uh he says yeah he says

402
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,320
listen you know we've been laughing and

403
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:45,920
cutting up they'll be back you just wait

404
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:48,320
they'll be back

405
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:51,120
and uh i was unnerved and honestly had i

406
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:52,480
been there by myself

407
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:55,600
i'd have left the place

408
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,759
but i didn't i i tried to put it out of

409
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:00,160
my mind

410
00:16:04,949 --> 00:16:03,360
and we're chatting again and toby has

411
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:04,959
his head turned to the left

412
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,399
looking at and something about to ask

413
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:10,560
him hey man what are you looking at

414
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,839
when uh he asked me hey terry were those

415
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,839
lights there before

416
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:17,120
and i'm like what lines what are you

417
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:18,880
talking i can't see them because his

418
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:21,680
torso is in the way

419
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:24,480
so i kind of stand up and take a step

420
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,839
back and then i can see them they're

421
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:27,360
right on the horizon

422
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,560
but they're they're kind of off the

423
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,480
horizon above the horizon they're too

424
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:32,079
high up in the air to be like lights

425
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:33,360
from a train or a

426
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,680
parking lot or something i mean plus we

427
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:38,240
were in the middle of nowhere

428
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,079
and um these three

429
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,680
these three points of light were in a

430
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,360
tight little triangle

431
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:47,759
each point being about as bright as the

432
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:48,560
uh knight

433
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,320
as the north star so they were very

434
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:52,880
bright and they just looked unnatural

435
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,920
there

436
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,519
and i asked toby i said man you're the

437
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,279
amateur astronomer you know i mean he

438
00:17:02,150 --> 00:16:59,680
could point out constellations

439
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:02,160
and uh you know that that was that was

440
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:03,199
going to be

441
00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,600
his occupation he wanted to be a an

442
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,679
astronomer

443
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:09,439
he says i don't know he says that that's

444
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,120
artificial

445
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,000
i said well you think that's in our

446
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,760
atmosphere or do you think that's out in

447
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:17,760
space

448
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:19,520
and he says i don't know i got no way to

449
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:22,959
tell if it's out of space it's big

450
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:26,160
so since he said that um

451
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,400
these things moved and what they did was

452
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:31,440
they rotated about 320 degrees

453
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,480
almost almost a full circle and it

454
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:36,080
aligned itself with the base

455
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:39,520
of the triangle parallel with the

456
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,799
horizon with the apex with triangle then

457
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,039
pointing up

458
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:47,039
and uh we were pretty impressed with

459
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:48,160
that

460
00:17:53,909 --> 00:17:51,440
and um but then um

461
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:53,919
things felt weird you know uh there was

462
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,000
very little conversation between the two

463
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,080
of us

464
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:01,679
and as we watched this thing

465
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:04,000
started to ascend and started to go

466
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:06,880
straight up into the air

467
00:18:09,750 --> 00:18:08,559
and we didn't think it was coming in our

468
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,760
direction it just looked like it was

469
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,640
going

470
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:13,200
up and it rose till it reached an

471
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:14,400
altitude

472
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,160
i don't you know at the time i couldn't

473
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:18,320
tell you how high it was i didn't know

474
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:19,520
the size of the craft

475
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:22,880
uh you know it's dark i don't know

476
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,919
um but i'll say this that night there

477
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:27,600
were a trillion stars out there really

478
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:28,000
were

479
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:30,240
and there was ambient starlight the sky

480
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:34,000
was was actually blue it wasn't black

481
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:37,280
and as this thing rose we could see that

482
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:37,679
the

483
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:43,520
and also did some

484
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,840
odd maneuvers it did this tumbling light

485
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:47,840
thing where it would turn

486
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:51,039
uh you know point over the base point

487
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:51,840
over the base

488
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,039
and kind of like in this tumbling motion

489
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:57,039
and i remember i had the thought that

490
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,600
this thing's moving with purpose

491
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:01,200
it's not just out of control i don't

492
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:02,559
know where that thought came from but

493
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:03,039
that's

494
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:09,990
and as we're watching on its

495
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:13,120
descent starts to get bigger and the

496
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,640
points of light

497
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,799
expand i mean they're always equidistant

498
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:17,760
to one another

499
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:20,320
uh this thing is you know it's not three

500
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:21,120
independent

501
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:23,360
lights operating in concert it's one

502
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,880
solid object

503
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,559
i mean when it passed over a field of

504
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,240
stars they would black out

505
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:30,400
until they had until it had moved past

506
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:33,440
and they would link back on

507
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:38,240
so i felt this weird um

508
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,600
sense of calm washed over me and again i

509
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,000
had no idea where that came from

510
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:46,080
uh but my my buddy must have been saying

511
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:47,919
the same thing i think the only

512
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,720
the only words said between us during

513
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:52,240
this whole thing that we were watching

514
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:52,880
was

515
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:56,240
toby said it's really moving now

516
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:57,760
uh and that's the only thing i remember

517
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:00,160
and i don't think i answered them

518
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:03,760
so we're watching and um

519
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:07,440
we i was in a weird place it was um

520
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:12,000
i i felt almost disinterested

521
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,720
i mean not apathetic but i felt kind of

522
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,320
removed from the situation

523
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:18,840
more like i was an observer than a

524
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:21,039
participant it was it was weird

525
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,200
i don't know but somehow

526
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,200
i believe that these things had control

527
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:29,679
over us um

528
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:31,679
you know toby's got a camera inside a

529
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:34,960
bag a foot away from him you know i'm an

530
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:36,799
amateur photographer at the time

531
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:39,200
i photograph everything i should have

532
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,120
been screaming atop my lungs get your

533
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,600
camera out man take a picture of this

534
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,280
and he did the thought of taking a

535
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:46,960
picture of this thing never crossed

536
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:50,799
our minds and that makes no sense

537
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:52,880
and that shows that something was

538
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,350
and this this sense of calm

539
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:01,360
the sensation would rush over me and

540
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,070
and finally this thing uh we saw it move

541
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,320
across the tree line

542
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,159
and it was at an altitude of just about

543
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:14,400
three thousand feet

544
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:17,840
and it stopped directly over

545
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:21,280
the uh metal and it wasn't directly over

546
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:21,600
us

547
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,480
by the tree line

548
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:28,480
and this thing was huge and we could see

549
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,159
well we could only see two sides we

550
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:31,679
could see the two points

551
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,280
points on two sides um

552
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:37,760
but this thing was five stories tall i

553
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:39,280
mean it was like it was like a super

554
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:39,919
walmart

555
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,880
it was just absolutely enormous and to

556
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:44,000
this day i don't understand

557
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:45,600
why this thing wasn't seen in five

558
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:47,840
counties i mean yeah i mean we were way

559
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:49,280
out in the middle of the woods and there

560
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:50,720
was nothing

561
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,919
back in the day there but uh it just

562
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,880
seems like

563
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:56,640
you know the campers at the campsite a

564
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:58,000
couple miles away couldn't see

565
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,919
this or didn't see this or if they did

566
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:01,919
see it they disregarded it i don't know

567
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:05,600
i don't know what the answer is so

568
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:10,159
while we're uh while we're waiting

569
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,679
we're just laying back on this thing it

570
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:13,039
was kind of cool who was kind of

571
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:14,240
watching this thing

572
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:18,159
um waiting to see what's going to happen

573
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,600
and from the center of this thing there

574
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:22,320
came a light um

575
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,000
and it was a white light it was about

576
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:27,919
you know what a search fight is like

577
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:29,600
when it cuts through heavy fog

578
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,400
you can see a column of white light

579
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:33,760
that's what this was like

580
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,360
but there was no fog and this uh

581
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:39,120
this white light was about the diameter

582
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:40,880
of a football

583
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:43,280
and it just boom like someone hit a

584
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,960
switch turned on

585
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,559
and landed right square in the middle of

586
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:48,960
our campfire

587
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:51,679
and stayed lit there for maybe 60

588
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:52,159
seconds

589
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:55,280
probably less and as soon as

590
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:58,880
it turned off then from the same spot

591
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,080
in the middle of the craft and

592
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:02,559
underneath there came a laser beam and i

593
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,120
had no

594
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:06,559
this was 1977 i had only seen lasers

595
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,590
kind of uh should have been exciting

596
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,600
but again i was just kind of in observer

597
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,120
mode

598
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:21,840
and it would land in our this purplish

599
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,559
blue light

600
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,520
buff diameter of a pencil would land in

601
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,440
a spot for a second

602
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:29,919
and then reappear in another spot and

603
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,080
then reappear in another spot

604
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:34,480
so it gave the illusion that this this

605
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,120
blue

606
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:37,679
bluish purple light was dancing all over

607
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:40,159
our campsite

608
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:41,760
and it you know it struck me in the

609
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:43,600
chest a couple times i didn't feel a

610
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,039
thing

611
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,080
um and i had the thought

612
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:50,400
this thing's checking us out i mean it's

613
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:51,360
scanning us

614
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:55,520
it's checking us out um

615
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:56,799
and i don't know where that came from

616
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:59,279
but i think that's true so that lasted

617
00:24:02,830 --> 00:24:00,080
just a bit

618
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:02,840
maybe three minutes and then that turned

619
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:05,679
off and as soon as that turned off

620
00:24:13,269 --> 00:24:08,799
um this calm sensation that i had

621
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,279
morphed into a flat out sedation

622
00:24:17,909 --> 00:24:16,720
all i wanted to do was go to bed i just

623
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:17,919
wanted to get in the tent and go to

624
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:18,559
sleep

625
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:21,200
and my my buddy stood up and he said

626
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:22,320
show's over

627
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:24,240
and that's all he said he grabbed his

628
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:26,320
air mattress and he walked over to the

629
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:26,720
tent

630
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,080
and kind of tossed it in and i followed

631
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,039
suit and i tossed it in

632
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,200
and uh the last thing that i remember

633
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:37,520
was that it was still silent that the

634
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,360
crickets and tree frogs never did come

635
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:40,960
back

636
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,840
and i laid down on that pillow and i was

637
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:45,600
out i didn't undress didn't take my

638
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,480
boots off

639
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:48,640
nothing i just kicked back on the

640
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:50,400
ceiling mattress and i was asleep the

641
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:53,440
second my head hit that pillow

642
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:56,400
and uh you know i don't know how long we

643
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:58,080
were out we can't tell

644
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:01,679
both of our watches we uh as emts

645
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,720
you know a watch is kind of

646
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,120
part of the uh of the equipment it's

647
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:09,840
it's a necessary object

648
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:12,159
and we both wore good wind-up mechanical

649
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,000
watches which

650
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,480
was common in 1977 you know there were

651
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:17,760
no batteries

652
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,919
very few at least if any um

653
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:24,000
both of our watches stopped mine stopped

654
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:26,840
at 2 40 on the nose totally stopped at 2

655
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:28,960
42.

656
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,240
both of those watches never ran again

657
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:35,520
i had an elgin that was less than a year

658
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:38,159
old i sent it back to the manufacturer

659
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,840
they sent it back to me and said that

660
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,200
the [\h__\h] saved that letter

661
00:25:49,110 --> 00:25:46,240
i they sent me a letter back and said

662
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:49,120
you avoided the warranty by subjecting

663
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:49,520
the

664
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:52,960
watch to a strong

665
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:56,320
magnetic field

666
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:59,600
wow and i'm like what well i guess i

667
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:01,919
know where that came from but

668
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:04,559
yeah uh and just as a side note i

669
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:06,000
couldn't wear a watch

670
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,480
for a year you know the tobacco i mean

671
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,559
if i bought i bought another wristwatch

672
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,400
it ran for less than 30 days then it

673
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,000
stopped

674
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:17,120
um so we had trouble

675
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,480
trouble with our watches for a year

676
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:22,960
i ended up buying a three dollar pocket

677
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:23,520
watch

678
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:30,630
so we were out i mean we were out cold i

679
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:32,080
don't know how long we were out

680
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,919
we estimate about five to six hours

681
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,360
based on the time that we saw the

682
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:39,440
sunlight

683
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:42,400
i woke up because there were lights

684
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:44,320
flashing through the tent

685
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,640
and they were yellow and white um

686
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:50,559
and these lights were so bright they

687
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,000
would light up the inside of that

688
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:54,559
tent i mean like a ballpark at night you

689
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,600
know it's like

690
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:57,760
a light bulb look like a flash bulb from

691
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,640
the 60s going off you know the kind that

692
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:02,080
would make you see a blue dot in front

693
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:03,679
of your eyes every time you blink for an

694
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:04,080
hour

695
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:07,200
i mean it was just incredibly bright

696
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,120
and i'm kind of out of it you know i

697
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,279
don't have my wits about me and i'm like

698
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,440
where am i oh yeah we're camping i'm

699
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:16,480
here with toby and we're camping

700
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:19,120
and i thought these lights i reasoned

701
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,000
that they must be

702
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:22,320
the overhead flashing lights of like a

703
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:23,520
park rangers truck

704
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,559
there to kick us out uh that was the

705
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:28,320
only logical explanation i could think

706
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,039
of

707
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:31,919
yeah and i sat up as soon as i set up i

708
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:32,720
realized i

709
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:35,919
i was in pain i had joint pain

710
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,120
and i looked down at my boots

711
00:27:43,269 --> 00:27:41,279
and my boots were undone almost all the

712
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,279
way down

713
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:45,440
and i thought what the heck because i

714
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,480
knew they were i knew

715
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,399
they were fully laced when i when i went

716
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:50,480
to sleep

717
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,520
and i took off a boot and my sock was on

718
00:27:56,310 --> 00:27:55,120
sideways

719
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:56,320
now you know one of the things they

720
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:57,520
teach you in the military is to take

721
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,559
care of your feet

722
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:01,120
i mean if you can't walk somebody's got

723
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,000
to carry you

724
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:04,799
and that takes two people you know out

725
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,679
of action

726
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,760
so you got to take care of your feet and

727
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:09,520
i do to this day

728
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,159
so i would never do that so that that

729
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:14,000
confused me

730
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:16,240
but i'm still not scared i'm still

731
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:17,600
thinking they're park rangers out there

732
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,640
so i put on my

733
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,480
time i put my socks and boots back on

734
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,559
lace them up turned my attention to the

735
00:28:25,190 --> 00:28:24,480
left and his toe be peering out of the

736
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,200
tent

737
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,279
of the flat his flat the flap on his

738
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:29,679
side of the tent

739
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:32,720
um toby was african-american he

740
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,240
had dark skin and there were two tracks

741
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,640
down the right side of his face

742
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:41,200
and in contrast with that bright white

743
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:42,080
light

744
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:45,600
um that tear truck kind of lit up

745
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:48,720
so i could see he was crying or at least

746
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,880
had been crying and that scared me

747
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:54,640
and i'm like toby what's out there man

748
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,080
it's park rangers who's out there

749
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,840
and he puts his finger up to his lips

750
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:01,440
kind of in the universal

751
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:05,440
you know be quiet thing and uh

752
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:08,159
he says be quiet i think they're still

753
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,520
out there

754
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:11,039
and you know i could tell from i could

755
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,320
tell from the look on his face i've

756
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,159
worked with this man for three years

757
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:15,600
and i could tell if you look on his face

758
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:21,350
so i opened the flap of my tent and i

759
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:22,320
looked out

760
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,840
and i saw two things that this craft

761
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:27,120
that had been

762
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:30,399
3 000 feet above us when we went to bed

763
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:34,000
had descended and it's now just 30 feet

764
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,039
over that metal um very close

765
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:39,279
i'm so glad we were offset from it not

766
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:41,039
underneath it

767
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:42,480
but it was it was incredibly

768
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,679
intimidating because of its signs

769
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,200
and the mere fact that it was just

770
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:49,200
levitated off the ground

771
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:52,720
was spooky the second thing i noticed

772
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:55,760
was um the lights

773
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:58,320
on the points of the triangle had dimmed

774
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:59,440
somewhat

775
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:00,799
but they were still flashing

776
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:07,269
and they gave us enough light between

777
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:09,120
that the end of starlight we could kind

778
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:11,919
of see what was going on in the meadow

779
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,720
and we were a bit of a distance away but

780
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,600
i saw

781
00:30:20,070 --> 00:30:17,600
12 to 15 of what i thought to be

782
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,830
and i said totally man what are these

783
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:23,200
kids doing out there in the middle of

784
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:24,240
the night

785
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,000
in the middle of nowhere and he said and

786
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,399
i'll never forget this

787
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:32,960
he said terry man those ain't no little

788
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:33,600
kids

789
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:36,320
look at them they're not human beings

790
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:37,279
don't you remember

791
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:40,000
they took us and they heard us and as

792
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:41,200
soon as he said that

793
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:44,799
i snapped out of whatever kind of uh

794
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:48,159
sedation or influence i was under and i

795
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:48,720
was just

796
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:55,990
also when he said that as soon as he

797
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:58,320
said that i had mental images

798
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:01,600
of being inside that thing

799
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:03,279
i want to be clear i don't never have

800
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:05,120
had a clear linear memory

801
00:31:09,509 --> 00:31:06,880
of being inside the ship and everything

802
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:09,519
that happened but i had this just these

803
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,960
tiny vignettes of events um inside the

804
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,399
thing

805
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,960
um and those have been boasting yes

806
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:18,720
those those

807
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:20,399
have been the uh subject of my

808
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,120
nightmares for 40 plus years

809
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:26,480
and uh i only have you know two a year

810
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:30,000
maybe three um you know we have we

811
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,919
our children are adults now they're 40

812
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,600
and 36

813
00:31:37,909 --> 00:31:35,360
you know and all they knew we never told

814
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,919
our kids about this

815
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:39,200
all they knew is that dad would have

816
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,960
screaming nightmares you know once or

817
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,960
twice a year

818
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,039
and i'd have to get up and go and check

819
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:46,960
the windows check the alarms

820
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:54,310
so we're watching these little guys walk

821
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,840
around this metal

822
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,679
and we can tell they're not they're not

823
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:59,200
like looking at the ground they're not

824
00:32:02,389 --> 00:32:00,399
looking for something they're just

825
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:02,399
walking around like tourists

826
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:05,200
and they had a bizarre gate they walked

827
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:05,919
like they're

828
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,640
hinged almost somewhat backward

829
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,799
because when they walked their knee

830
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,640
would move back and it gave them a real

831
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,760
peculiar gait

832
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,870
and i also when i look close could see

833
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,480
that yeah they weren't human beings

834
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:24,000
whatever they were they had large

835
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:25,519
oversized heads

836
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:28,559
um you know spindly and torsos

837
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,430
so while we're watching them

838
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,000
uh this lot another light came on from

839
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,320
underneath this thing

840
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,480
and it was about it was about i'm gonna

841
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,159
say it's 30 feet in diameter

842
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,960
because it's it's about the beam of

843
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:49,120
light is about as wide

844
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:53,039
as this thing is tall off of metal so

845
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:56,000
30 feet up in the air and on a column of

846
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:56,880
white light

847
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:01,760
center of the thing

848
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,960
and as soon as that does these little

849
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:05,679
guys

850
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,559
turn and start to walk toward the light

851
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,880
so we're terrified we're absolutely

852
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,559
scared out of our wits because we're not

853
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,159
sure

854
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:18,080
if if we sneeze are we going to draw

855
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:19,440
their attention you know

856
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:21,039
we're we're afraid of that we're afraid

857
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,000
of these cats

858
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:25,919
and they would walk into this light in

859
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,159
twos and threes

860
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:31,440
and just bash i mean

861
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:34,240
like that like that 1960 star trek thing

862
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:36,399
where they had a transponder transporter

863
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:37,120
or something

864
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:38,960
yeah or killed people standing up and

865
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:40,720
then they would just dissolve in the

866
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,480
pixelation that's what this was like

867
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:46,960
and when the last two guys uh stepped

868
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:47,840
into that light

869
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,120
and dissolved that light

870
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:52,960
off i mean like so again like someone

871
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,159
put the switch it turned

872
00:34:01,110 --> 00:33:57,200
off and then immediately

873
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,120
the um there had been a droning noise

874
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,080
um that i forgot to mention that i

875
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:06,880
noticed when i woke up matter of fact i

876
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:08,560
i thought maybe this park range was

877
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:10,159
running a generator in back of this

878
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:12,879
truck which of course makes no sense

879
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:15,839
um but by this time we had been come

880
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,480
we've become

881
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:19,520
accustomed to that noise i think

882
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:23,919
and uh and that noise stopped

883
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:27,839
and the uh as i said the lights

884
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,639
on the point of the triangle change from

885
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:31,679
multi-color

886
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:35,760
and flashing to just all white

887
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,960
and there was a um

888
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:40,720
if you go to my website i have a hand

889
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:43,599
drawing that i made of the thing

890
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:45,919
there's what i call a light panel and it

891
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,520
goes all the way up

892
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,079
all the way up the apex all the way at

893
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,159
the points of the triangle

894
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:54,240
and there was a beam a bright light that

895
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:55,280
would run up

896
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,839
and down that uh that light bar

897
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,280
and i thought yeah that's what makes it

898
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:03,200
look like a twinkling star

899
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,200
in the sky instead it's steady bright

900
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:06,960
light it makes it look like a star

901
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:11,440
it's a disguise and

902
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:13,280
we watched this thing take off and it

903
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,280
did not take off like a rocket ship it

904
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:17,440
lifted off like a hot air balloon

905
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,560
and it went straight up

906
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:22,480
and we watched it until it was a single

907
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:23,599
point of light

908
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:26,400
and then you know three points of light

909
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,920
and yeah it did twinkle in the sky

910
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,520
and like i say one point a light and

911
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:33,760
then it was gone further

912
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:36,880
the higher it got the faster it moved so

913
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,599
it's gone

914
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:39,839
and toby and i are sitting there uh and

915
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,160
we're still scared out of our wits

916
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,800
and i know this sounds odd but you know

917
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,079
i knew we had to

918
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,040
get out of there um and all i had over

919
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,359
my head was a piece of canvas

920
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:53,200
but i felt that piece of canvas gave me

921
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:55,280
cover you know i wasn't

922
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,400
vulnerable i wasn't out in the open and

923
00:36:01,109 --> 00:36:00,000
the darts of the car we're gonna have to

924
00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:01,119
be in the open

925
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:03,680
you know for the 20 yards or so to the

926
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:05,680
car

927
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:08,079
and uh toby's like man we just got to do

928
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:09,280
this

929
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:12,079
and i grabbed my wallet he grabbed his

930
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:13,680
flashlight

931
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,839
and uh we ran to the car knocked in

932
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,760
hit the locks turned on the dome light

933
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:21,359
checked under the seats

934
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:24,560
make sure we were alone

935
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,000
and uh i gotta tell you to this day uh

936
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,079
i will not walk across an open space

937
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:32,880
i'll walk a mile and a half around

938
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:34,960
rather than cut across an open field

939
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:42,550
and uh we drove as fast as we could

940
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:43,040
north

941
00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:46,400
we got back to the base um

942
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:47,599
something that's important i should

943
00:36:52,829 --> 00:36:49,760
mention too is uh

944
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,839
this event changed us we were different

945
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:54,240
people

946
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,920
my wife would tell you we were different

947
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,520
people than we were when we went down

948
00:37:03,589 --> 00:36:59,680
there we went down there as kids i think

949
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,599
and we left there as as adults

950
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:05,359
we were a lot more serious and a lot

951
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:10,400
more um well we were just adults

952
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:14,720
um but the weirdest thing was

953
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:17,520
mike who this guy was he's my best

954
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,280
friend my co-worker

955
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:21,839
you know on our days off we play cards

956
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,480
together

957
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:25,359
we you know have a beer and barbecue and

958
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,320
uh

959
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,800
um we just had fun together we were just

960
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,240
friends

961
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:33,200
and suddenly i wanted nothing to do with

962
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,040
the guy

963
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,280
and i could not reconcile that emotion

964
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,920
and i can't to this day

965
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:41,839
but that's what i felt i felt like i did

966
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,359
not want anything to do with this guy

967
00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:47,760
and i found out that that's not that

968
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,440
uncommon

969
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,320
i had uh since i put my my book out

970
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:53,920
devil's thin

971
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:57,040
uh i put an email address in the

972
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:58,880
back of the book and said email if

973
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:00,720
you've had an experience

974
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:03,359
and i got over as a few days ago i

975
00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:07,040
cracked 1400 emails from people

976
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,800
i get up every morning and return a

977
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,480
couple emails from people i return

978
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,119
everybody's email

979
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:16,320
but i've got a core of about 600 maybe

980
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:17,440
700

981
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:20,240
stories they had this incredible threat

982
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:22,160
of commonality through them

983
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:25,040
uh you know two people witnessed

984
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:25,760
something

985
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,640
and they drift apart family members

986
00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:30,160
witness something

987
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:32,720
and they don't talk about it won't talk

988
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:33,520
about it

989
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:35,200
years later somebody brings it up at a

990
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,599
thanksgiving dinner and

991
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,760
that was it then it was over everybody

992
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:41,920
went home

993
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:44,480
so it's not that it's not that unusual

994
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:47,280
uh to have that emotion

995
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,680
so we got back to the base our live six

996
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:52,320
to the hospital

997
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:55,760
i had like 103 fever i was extremely

998
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:56,720
dehydrated

999
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,760
burns to my eyes

1000
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:04,079
uh flashburns are what like an off

1001
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:04,960
boulder would get

1002
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,400
if they didn't wear that hood and it's

1003
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,720
uh it's a sunburn to the cornea of your

1004
00:39:16,870 --> 00:39:12,800
eye and i can tell you it's painful

1005
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:16,880
it feels like you have sand in your eyes

1006
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:19,680
so on the way back i'm trying to deal

1007
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:20,640
with that

1008
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,640
because as soon as the sun comes up man

1009
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:24,720
you know pain in my eyes

1010
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:28,000
terrible toby whatever they did to me i

1011
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,839
think they gave him a double dose

1012
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:31,680
because he is just curled up in a ball

1013
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:34,800
in the big bench seat of my old chevy

1014
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:38,000
um and uh

1015
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:41,520
he's just out of it so i went to the

1016
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:42,000
hospital

1017
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,000
they gave us separate rooms they kept us

1018
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:46,160
apart toby got one exam room i got the

1019
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:46,880
other

1020
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,320
and remember you know i'm a member of

1021
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:49,920
the hospital squadron these people are

1022
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,720
all my friends

1023
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:52,800
i know them all i work with them and you

1024
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,839
know medical people take care of their

1025
00:39:58,150 --> 00:39:56,160
own

1026
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,160
so i had the most thorough medical exam

1027
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,720
of my life

1028
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:02,560
but i had to keep my eyes closed because

1029
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:03,839
i was so photophobic

1030
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:08,480
from this from this burn to my eyes

1031
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:10,960
but i do remember i do recall the growl

1032
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:12,560
of a geiger counter

1033
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,680
uh and then it growled and i knew that

1034
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,520
it shouldn't be

1035
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:20,240
and um you know i'm on a base with

1036
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,319
enough plutonium to destroy europe

1037
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:24,800
so you know plutonium radiation is an

1038
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:30,630
and uh they never mentioned that

1039
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,400
they diagnosed me as being acutely

1040
00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:34,079
dehydrated

1041
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:37,119
uh and i had

1042
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,760
uh sunburn i had the worst sunburn i'd

1043
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,000
ever had in life i was burned under my

1044
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:43,760
arms the soles of my feet

1045
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,599
my scalp um i mean everywhere

1046
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:50,400
was burned and the doctors could not

1047
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:52,000
understand that

1048
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:53,920
and uh one of them showed would you take

1049
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:56,240
off your clothes and get on a rotisserie

1050
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:57,359
and uh

1051
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,119
you know sit in the sun for a couple

1052
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:01,520
hours and uh nobody else thought it was

1053
00:41:05,270 --> 00:41:03,200
funny i sure didn't

1054
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:05,280
um but that's that's how badly we will

1055
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:06,640
burn never peel

1056
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:09,119
never blistered though it was just that

1057
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,119
it was painful

1058
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,760
so i get into my private room to keep

1059
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:15,680
the lights off for my comfort

1060
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,040
and they treat me well of course

1061
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:21,440
and uh one night i was there three days

1062
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:24,160
and two nights on the second night there

1063
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,200
my night nurse came in with a

1064
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:29,920
a sedative for me to help me sleep it's

1065
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:31,760
like 9 00 pm

1066
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:34,079
and two guys in blue business suits

1067
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:34,800
followed her

1068
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,240
into the exam room

1069
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:40,880
and the one there was one guy about 50

1070
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,680
ish

1071
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,520
with a flat top haircut like they had in

1072
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:45,200
the 60s i mean it was either out of

1073
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:45,680
style

1074
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:49,200
back in 77. and then the other guy was

1075
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:50,319
about

1076
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:53,359
30 years old much taller

1077
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:54,960
but the older guy was obviously in

1078
00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:57,280
charge and they carried themselves like

1079
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:57,920
cops

1080
00:42:03,750 --> 00:42:02,319
i mean they just they were police and uh

1081
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:03,760
you know they made no effort to hide

1082
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,440
their shoulder holsters with them

1083
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,160
you know they were hours visible and

1084
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:10,480
they uh

1085
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,680
yeah they told them there you look i

1086
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,200
told them i said that's gonna sedate and

1087
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:14,560
it's gonna have to wait we have to ask

1088
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,440
some questions to sergeant lovelace

1089
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,599
and then for no reason he said in a

1090
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:21,040
really mean voice

1091
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:24,319
and shut the door on your way out and i

1092
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:24,880
thought

1093
00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:27,200
my god that's uncalled for you know he

1094
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,440
has a little civility here

1095
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,960
that scared out of my wits i mean i'd

1096
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:32,240
always been a straight kid i've never

1097
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:32,640
had an

1098
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:34,880
interaction with the police in my life i

1099
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:35,920
didn't

1100
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,200
of an education

1101
00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:40,800
life experience i certainly didn't have

1102
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:42,319
a law degree

1103
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:45,520
and uh

1104
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:48,160
he pulled up a chair next to me and his

1105
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:48,800
his uh

1106
00:42:52,390 --> 00:42:50,240
second pulled up a chair on the other

1107
00:42:54,309 --> 00:42:52,400
side of me and

1108
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:54,319
they started first they read me my

1109
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:56,079
rights under uniform code of military

1110
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:57,599
justice

1111
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:01,040
and then they put on their

1112
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:03,280
the guy in charge put on his little you

1113
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:05,839
know drugstore eyeglasses to read

1114
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:09,520
and uh like i said redmi no lights

1115
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,720
and he starts off with uh the park

1116
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:14,720
rangers found your little campsite down

1117
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:15,200
there

1118
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,040
we left our tent we got our cooler we

1119
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:21,040
left toby's backpack

1120
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:22,400
and that's how they found us tony's

1121
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:25,040
backpack had his name and address on it

1122
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,920
and both toby and i lived on the base

1123
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:29,119
and family housing

1124
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:32,800
mco housing on base

1125
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:36,480
so my guess is the park rangers

1126
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:38,880
found that chain we can put that chain

1127
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,119
back up when we left

1128
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:43,280
uh found that chain down and probably

1129
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:44,720
drove in to investigate

1130
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:48,560
and found a campsite so this guy's

1131
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:51,839
this guy's grilled me and he's he's uh

1132
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:54,880
using techniques were i mean i i've seen

1133
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:57,920
in law enforcement from my days as being

1134
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:59,119
a district attorney i

1135
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:01,839
i know a little bit about this police

1136
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:04,640
interrogation methods and uh

1137
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:08,079
and uh you know in retrospect

1138
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,280
it was mostly drama and um

1139
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:15,599
you know i said toby and i had made the

1140
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:17,359
path that we weren't going to tell

1141
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,839
anybody we saw a flying saucer this was

1142
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:22,400
1977. uh

1143
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:23,839
i think they'd have put us on a psych

1144
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,599
ward and we'd have been discharged from

1145
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:27,359
the military

1146
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,440
uh and i did i didn't i didn't want a

1147
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:31,280
medical discharge i wanted to finish my

1148
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:31,839
list

1149
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,000
and finish school so um

1150
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:38,800
all we told the doctors was we were

1151
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,480
feeling funny

1152
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:43,119
we went to bed and we woke up sick as

1153
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:43,760
dogs

1154
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,359
and here we are so i told the same story

1155
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:49,200
to this osi agent

1156
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:53,520
and um you know he insinuates well

1157
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,119
i think you're planning on going back

1158
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,960
you guys are you guys cool on marijuana

1159
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:58,400
down there is that what this is all

1160
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,280
about is there a

1161
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,520
little marijuana plot down there and of

1162
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:03,200
course that scared me to that because in

1163
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,200
1977 that would have been a very big

1164
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:07,359
deal

1165
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:10,640
and uh he

1166
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,400
he kind of wraps things up and um

1167
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,319
he laid out some forms for me to sign

1168
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:18,319
and i said sir what are these

1169
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:20,800
i understand i can't read i've got you

1170
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:22,560
know burns to my eyes

1171
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,800
that they treat with sad in my eyes so

1172
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:27,520
everything is blurry

1173
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,240
and he flips the overhead lights on that

1174
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:32,880
they had kept off for my comfort

1175
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,200
and i'm like you know that's painful

1176
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,800
i said so what are these forms and he

1177
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:40,560
said son these are weaver and consent

1178
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:41,359
forms

1179
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:43,920
uh he had this weird this weird alabama

1180
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,240
or mississippi accent i'm not sure which

1181
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,319
and like you talk kind of like the

1182
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:50,319
accent that calvin parker has if you've

1183
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:52,720
ever heard calvin speak

1184
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:56,720
and he added me a pen and i signed

1185
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:57,920
everything i never never

1186
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:01,119
never read a word of it and i wasn't

1187
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:03,920
about to ask him to read it to me

1188
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:06,400
right so he scooped up those forms put

1189
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,560
him in his briefcase

1190
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:11,040
uh as i said the captain left and it was

1191
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:12,640
just me and the major

1192
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:16,079
the guy in charge alone in the room

1193
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:18,240
and he packed his little briefcase thing

1194
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:20,560
and my the head of my bed was right near

1195
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:22,000
the door

1196
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:27,359
no one could come in without him knowing

1197
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:28,720
it

1198
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:30,960
and he got down next to my ear and he

1199
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:32,560
whispered

1200
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:36,640
so i know and you know

1201
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:38,960
you two knuckleheads stumbled onto

1202
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:42,319
something out there didn't you

1203
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,550
i certainly wasn't going to tell them

1204
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,800
the truth you know

1205
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,640
i mean the truth is important that's why

1206
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:52,000
i thought you know

1207
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:53,520
we were sick in the morning we woke up

1208
00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,390
and he said i didn't answer him and he

1209
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:02,400
said oh i think you know what i mean

1210
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:05,680
i know you know what i mean and he says

1211
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:08,720
all i want is your camera and your film

1212
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:11,760
and this can all go away whoa

1213
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:15,119
and without thinking i blurted out sir i

1214
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:17,920
never took a single picture of it

1215
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,280
and he just smiled and that was

1216
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,599
confirmation

1217
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,680
i don't know how they knew i really

1218
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:27,520
don't i wish i knew how they knew

1219
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:31,520
but they knew uh they absolutely knew

1220
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:35,680
and um like i said i had this reputation

1221
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:36,400
for being

1222
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:39,040
an amateur photographer and i think they

1223
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:41,359
were very concerned that i had a 36

1224
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,240
black-and-white exposure role of film uh

1225
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:45,599
with images of this thing

1226
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:49,520
god i wish i had you know

1227
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,760
but again weird enough the thought of

1228
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:52,880
taking a picture of the thing never

1229
00:48:03,349 --> 00:47:59,910
and there was a second osi investigation

1230
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:03,359
um i should mention toby uh let me back

1231
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:04,559
up real quick i'll make this

1232
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:09,839
quick yeah when we were in the exam room

1233
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:14,000
the um the doctor was just finishing up

1234
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:15,119
my exam

1235
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,160
and four guys came into the room it was

1236
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:20,640
the base commander the uniform of course

1237
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:22,400
the hospital commander who i knew very

1238
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:24,559
well in uniform

1239
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,079
and then there were two guys in civilian

1240
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:28,559
clothes i didn't recognize

1241
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,040
and the only one that spoke was my boss

1242
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,160
the hospital commander

1243
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,880
uh it wasn't the usual friendly

1244
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,559
conversational tone yeah there's

1245
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:40,480
difference between an enlisted man and

1246
00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:41,599
an officer

1247
00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:43,760
you know but we usually have a

1248
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:45,520
conversation

1249
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,440
uh he walks in and he says sergeant

1250
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,160
lovelace you're to have no contact

1251
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:52,319
for sergeant tobias in any way she

1252
00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:53,280
performed

1253
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,559
that means no talking no telephone calls

1254
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,800
no messages to any third parties you're

1255
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:00,559
not to give him anything he's not to

1256
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:02,240
give you anything

1257
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:05,359
uh and on and on and on he would as far

1258
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:06,240
as say you know

1259
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:07,599
if you're at the base exchange and

1260
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:09,440
you're shopping and you turn around

1261
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:11,839
into the frozen food aisle and he's

1262
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,079
there you'll immediately turn around and

1263
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:16,319
walk in the opposite direction

1264
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:17,760
so he goes through this whole bit do you

1265
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:20,960
think and then re-emphasizes

1266
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:23,680
this is an order sergeant if you disobey

1267
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:24,240
it

1268
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,839
there will be consequences do you

1269
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:28,240
understand

1270
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:31,920
i understood what consequences meant so

1271
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:34,559
i said yes sir

1272
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,040
uh and they left and that's that's why

1273
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:39,359
they didn't put us in the same room

1274
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,920
and they they separated us they put me

1275
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:43,760
in a supply squadron

1276
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:46,319
and they cut toby orders for for uh

1277
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:46,880
japan

1278
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,240
at like light speed so he he was gone in

1279
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:52,079
a couple of weeks

1280
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:55,599
and i wanted to see the guy one last

1281
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,640
time

1282
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:58,480
and i can't explain the emotion or the

1283
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:01,920
reason why because it doesn't make sense

1284
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:05,920
but i felt like i owed them a goodbye

1285
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,480
so despite the order um

1286
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:13,440
my wife stopped by his house we were

1287
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:14,720
actually coming home from the grocery

1288
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,680
store

1289
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,599
and he lived just what three blocks from

1290
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:19,040
us

1291
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,319
and uh there was a moving truck parked

1292
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:24,000
in the uh

1293
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:27,040
in the driveway and my wife just don't

1294
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,319
do this jerry you know

1295
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:30,640
these osi people scare me and i said

1296
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:31,920
look i'll be real quick

1297
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:34,240
i'm gonna shake his hand wish him well

1298
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:37,760
he's been my friend i own that at least

1299
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:40,319
and i hopped out of the car she was

1300
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:42,480
driving this her little karman gear

1301
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:45,040
and i ran up to the door same same

1302
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,800
doorway i've walked through a hundred

1303
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:48,559
times before

1304
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:51,760
um but this time when i opened the door

1305
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:54,240
i announced myself and i said oh anybody

1306
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:54,640
home

1307
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:58,480
it's me and tony's wife

1308
00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:00,960
walked by and she had something in her

1309
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:01,520
hand

1310
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:03,200
so it was either a lamp or a box or

1311
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:05,520
something but they were moving

1312
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,760
and she just glared at me and gave me

1313
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,960
the the

1314
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:10,559
venus look and said you're not supposed

1315
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:12,240
to be here

1316
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:14,319
and i said no i know that i'm not here

1317
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:16,160
for confrontation i just want to wish

1318
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:17,359
you guys well

1319
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:19,599
and uh i know you're i know you're

1320
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,960
moving

1321
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:23,040
and i think in retrospect she probably

1322
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:24,480
blamed me

1323
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:27,760
uh for her husband's um

1324
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,880
illness and for uh them having to pull

1325
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:32,160
up roots

1326
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,240
and move so abruptly and toby heard this

1327
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:39,040
exchange and came out of the bedroom and

1328
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:41,280
around the hallway

1329
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:46,480
and um and he was a wreck it was a mess

1330
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:49,440
i mean i knew this guy always to be uh

1331
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,240
meticulous

1332
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:53,280
about his appearance you know he was

1333
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:56,480
um always had a haircut always had shoes

1334
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:57,119
shined

1335
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:01,200
always had freshly crisp creased uniform

1336
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:04,800
unlike me and i'm a slob but he was uh

1337
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:07,839
he was not when he came out of the

1338
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,040
bedroom

1339
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:10,960
he's wearing a dirty t-shirt his hair is

1340
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,400
like sideways

1341
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,040
he hasn't shaved he's got on blue jeans

1342
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:17,440
and he's barefoot

1343
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,559
uh it just looks terrible

1344
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:22,559
and he walks up to me and it was awkward

1345
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,680
it was awkward for both of us

1346
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:27,520
you know and i i thought it would be

1347
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:29,760
appropriate to hug the guy

1348
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:33,359
and say you know i i wish the best will

1349
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:34,160
miss you

1350
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:37,839
um but he didn't do that and we did this

1351
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:39,200
um

1352
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:42,480
inelegant kind of handshake thing where

1353
00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:46,079
you know we finally finally

1354
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:48,319
made connections and shook hands and i

1355
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:49,599
said

1356
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:52,400
i just want to wish you well and i could

1357
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,040
smell

1358
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:55,599
he had liquor on his breath and he

1359
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:56,800
wasn't a drinker

1360
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,440
you know he was maybe a can of beer beer

1361
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:01,599
and a half at a barbecue that's it

1362
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,280
uh but he had liquor on his butt breath

1363
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:06,880
and may have been under the influence of

1364
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:09,520
liquor and toby was a little short i'm

1365
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:10,800
six foot toby was

1366
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,079
a couple inches shorter than i am

1367
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,960
and he just he looked up at me and his

1368
00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:18,640
eyes were bloodshot

1369
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:22,240
and he asked me he said

1370
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:27,910
and i said yes my brother it really

1371
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:31,680
happened and you're not losing your mind

1372
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,190
and i said man i don't have a clue

1373
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,200
and i broke eye contact i looked at my

1374
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,680
boots and

1375
00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:45,760
it was an awkward moment of silence and

1376
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:47,359
i didn't say goodbye i just turned and

1377
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:54,069
it was a weird exchange got back in the

1378
00:53:56,870 --> 00:53:54,960
car

1379
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:56,880
i really thought i would feel better

1380
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:58,160
seeing him again

1381
00:54:02,549 --> 00:54:00,880
wishing him well saying goodbye but that

1382
00:54:06,230 --> 00:54:02,559
it didn't turn out that way

1383
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:09,670
so toby left and uh

1384
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:12,800
i stayed i had one final interrogation

1385
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:15,920
with the osi at their headquarters

1386
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:20,000
at a uh an interrogation room

1387
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:22,079
under the influence of sodium amital

1388
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:25,599
which is a short acting hypnotic drug

1389
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:27,440
one of the one of the forms that i had

1390
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:29,280
signed while i was in the hospital

1391
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:32,960
was consent to hypnotic regression

1392
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,319
and that's part of the process so i was

1393
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:37,359
hypnotized

1394
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,480
and uh asked to relay everything that

1395
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:42,799
happened to us

1396
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,960
uh math had to start it off with after

1397
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,400
the guy thought that i was under

1398
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:48,559
i was trying to resist the hypnosis i

1399
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,599
thought i could research the hypnosis

1400
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,240
mentally i think the opposite of what

1401
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,079
he's saying you know go down the stairs

1402
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:58,640
feeling relaxed i'm going up the stairs

1403
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:59,760
you know i'm

1404
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,760
doing multiplication tables in my head

1405
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:03,520
i'm trying to do everything i can not to

1406
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:04,720
surrender my full

1407
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,599
brain and my full attention to this guy

1408
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:09,040
but when he gave me that drug it was

1409
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:09,359
like

1410
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:14,160
bam it was i was in twilight zone

1411
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,799
and he said uh terry you and toby went

1412
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:18,480
camping is that right

1413
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,920
and i said yes that's right

1414
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,599
and he says my that must have been

1415
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:25,359
exciting

1416
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:28,640
i just said yes and he said and you saw

1417
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:31,599
some funny lights in this guy didn't you

1418
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:34,960
and i said yes and he says but they

1419
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:37,680
weren't funny lights were they tearing

1420
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,400
he said no they weren't he says who were

1421
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:41,839
they

1422
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,960
and i said there were the space people

1423
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:46,880
and i could not believe i could not

1424
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:48,640
believe those words came out of my mouth

1425
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:58,470
and this

1426
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:00,549
hypnotic regression interrogation thing

1427
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:06,069
the point of the exercise was they

1428
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:07,200
wanted to find out

1429
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:10,319
was i truthful with these agents and did

1430
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:11,839
i have any film

1431
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,680
they were concerned i had a photograph

1432
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:15,599
of this thing that was the whole purpose

1433
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:16,000
of this

1434
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:20,000
exercise and uh

1435
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:22,079
you know since i didn't i told them the

1436
00:56:27,829 --> 00:56:23,920
truth no i don't

1437
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:27,839
no i don't and uh they believed me

1438
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,559
and uh brought me out of hypnosis and

1439
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,160
caught me loose and that was kind of the

1440
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:33,760
end of that adventure

1441
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,000
and i got out of the air force in 79

1442
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:40,960
and that that was the end of my

1443
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:45,270
so there's a lot more that happened

1444
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:49,910
i just briefly mentioned because it

1445
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:51,440
makes sense

1446
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,760
i had never had an intention of telling

1447
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:54,960
this story to anyone

1448
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:57,119
we didn't tell our kids it was a secret

1449
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:58,720
my wife and i shared as a matter of fact

1450
00:57:01,990 --> 00:56:59,839
every time

1451
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:02,000
a few a few occasions we talked about it

1452
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:04,319
over 40 some years of our marriage every

1453
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:04,799
time

1454
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,440
if we if we brought it up i felt guilty

1455
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,040
for some reason

1456
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:10,960
and i think they wired my brain for that

1457
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:14,160
i really believe that

1458
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:17,599
so in 2012

1459
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:20,480
i have retired uh from the state of

1460
00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:21,680
vermont

1461
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,000
where our adult children and

1462
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:30,079
grandchildren are

1463
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:33,520
and um about eight months later in

1464
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:34,400
october

1465
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:36,079
of that year i woke up and i couldn't

1466
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:38,960
support weight on my right leg

1467
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:40,640
and told my wife you got to take me got

1468
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,640
to take me to the hospital

1469
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:45,280
the only medical care i had was i had

1470
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:46,960
free medical care from the va

1471
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:50,400
so take me to the va went to the va

1472
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:52,160
emergency room and they

1473
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:55,680
built me into x-ray and x-ray technician

1474
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:57,839
took um

1475
00:58:01,750 --> 00:58:00,160
a lot of shots took a lot of shots on my

1476
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,760
of my um

1477
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:03,119
and asked me have you been in an

1478
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:05,040
accident or had a shrapnel wound or

1479
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,400
something that would account for a piece

1480
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:08,400
of metal in your leg

1481
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:10,000
and i said no like i never left the

1482
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,599
states um

1483
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:13,440
and i've never i've never done anything

1484
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,359
to that other than maybe ever skinned me

1485
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:17,760
as a kid

1486
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:20,079
and uh she looked confused and she said

1487
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:21,680
well the radiologist is going to come

1488
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:24,880
down take a look at your films

1489
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:28,480
i said okay so radiologist comes down

1490
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:32,000
looking very annoyed and he walks in

1491
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:36,319
and he pops up the films on a light box

1492
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,720
and he says well i can i can tell this

1493
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,480
and he walks over to me and he pokes me

1494
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:41,760
in my knee and says you're going to have

1495
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:42,559
a scar

1496
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,680
right about here i said doctor i don't

1497
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:47,520
have a stomach right there

1498
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:49,040
and he says you got to have scar here

1499
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,640
because i

1500
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:52,240
pointed out the image you know it's like

1501
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:53,760
a little transistor or something about

1502
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:55,839
the size of a fingernail with two wires

1503
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,200
attached to it

1504
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,839
he said for this object to be as deeply

1505
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:01,359
embedded in your tissue through your

1506
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:02,000
fascia

1507
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,640
uh it can't it can't violate the

1508
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:06,480
integrity of your skin without leaving a

1509
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:06,880
scar

1510
00:59:13,910 --> 00:59:12,559
we argued about it and you know he

1511
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:13,920
finally i

1512
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,960
took my pants off again and uh

1513
00:59:20,069 --> 00:59:18,880
he examined my leg for 10 minutes and

1514
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:20,079
looked uh

1515
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:23,599
disturbed and he said no i don't find a

1516
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:24,720
scar

1517
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:27,119
and i said well doctor let me ask you

1518
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:29,119
how often is it that you find a foreign

1519
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:30,720
object in the body and there not

1520
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:33,760
be a corresponding scar

1521
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:35,359
and he said never he said i've been a

1522
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:36,880
radiologist 23 years

1523
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:39,839
i've never seen that before and he says

1524
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:41,040
there's something else i want to show

1525
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:41,359
you

1526
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:44,720
the guy was almost empathetic he popped

1527
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:45,760
up the second view

1528
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,559
which was the side view of my leg and in

1529
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:50,160
my calf muscle

1530
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,799
there's a collection of um like tic

1531
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:54,079
tac-like objects

1532
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:56,640
that form like a flower or make a floret

1533
01:00:02,630 --> 00:59:58,960
pattern

1534
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:02,640
and uh a little thought in the middle uh

1535
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,319
and he says you got these bones in your

1536
01:00:07,510 --> 01:00:06,160
leg and before i saw the x-ray i said

1537
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:07,520
well hell what's wrong with that doc i'm

1538
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,880
supposed to have bullets in my leg he

1539
01:00:12,789 --> 01:00:10,319
says no no no

1540
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,799
and he showed me and it was weird i mean

1541
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,520
uh

1542
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,920
as an emt i knew a little bit paramedic

1543
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:17,680
i knew a little bit about human anatomy

1544
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:19,599
physiology and i knew

1545
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:22,319
uh that there that there were no bones

1546
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:25,359
inside the cat muscle

1547
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:28,880
and it was shocking and i'll tell you

1548
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:30,720
it was like a slap in the face to see it

1549
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,240
because it brought back these memories

1550
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:34,559
from 1977.

1551
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:35,920
and i knew these things had put their

1552
01:00:40,829 --> 01:00:37,760
hands on me and

1553
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:40,839
that was just creepy that was just awful

1554
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:43,760
and he said you know muscle doesn't

1555
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,480
autumn

1556
01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:46,720
muscle doesn't or pardon me bone tissue

1557
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:48,000
doesn't just sprout

1558
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:49,760
in the middle of a muscle that doesn't

1559
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:51,920
happen much less

1560
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,240
do they arrange themselves in a

1561
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:56,400
symmetrical pattern like this

1562
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,190
and uh he said i don't know

1563
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:05,119
but they did find i had a what's called

1564
01:01:08,789 --> 01:01:06,319
a bakery cyst

1565
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:08,799
just it's common it's a benign system

1566
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:10,319
and they my kneecap

1567
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,359
uh and and these these things in my body

1568
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:15,359
were just found by happenstance because

1569
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:15,760
i

1570
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:39,520
became a lot more frequent

1571
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:44,640
and uh 2016

1572
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:46,000
i was determined i'm going to write a

1573
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:47,280
book and i'm going to tell the world

1574
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:48,400
about this

1575
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:52,079
and uh and i did and it feels good to

1576
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:55,520
to do that and i i enjoy telling the

1577
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:56,640
story it's a little bit

1578
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,240
uncomfortable to tell but i enjoy

1579
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,720
telling the story uh i think the message

1580
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:02,559
is important

1581
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:03,920
you know and the message is is that

1582
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:06,480
we're not we're not topped off we're not

1583
01:02:18,069 --> 01:02:14,710
you know we are they are so far above us

1584
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:18,079
uh in all regard that

1585
01:02:22,069 --> 01:02:21,359
um if people don't believe this stuff is

1586
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:22,079
real

1587
01:02:26,470 --> 01:02:24,240
that's fine everybody is entitled to

1588
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:26,480
their to their opinion and i'm not here

1589
01:02:32,950 --> 01:02:29,039
to change anyone's mind

1590
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:32,960
but um i would just say

1591
01:02:37,829 --> 01:02:36,160
listen to people look at the evidence

1592
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:37,839
yeah sure there's a lot of stuff out

1593
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,599
there done with photoshop by people

1594
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,359
trying to deceive you

1595
01:02:45,029 --> 01:02:43,920
but there are a lot of legitimate uh

1596
01:02:47,589 --> 01:02:45,039
people out there

1597
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:47,599
like myself that you know have a

1598
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:48,559
reputation

1599
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:52,079
uh you know i lost all of my respect

1600
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:54,000
and the respect of all my peers in the

1601
01:02:58,870 --> 01:02:56,240
legal community when i did this

1602
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,880
uh but i don't care i made more more

1603
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:00,480
friends in the uh

1604
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:04,240
ufo community uh i find out who found

1605
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:10,390
so that's that's pretty much where it

1606
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,549
such an amazing story and i love that

1607
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:18,319
you're not out to change people's

1608
01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:20,640
minds about ufo or the existence of

1609
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:21,680
alien life and

1610
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:23,440
and you're grateful to have survived the

1611
01:03:27,109 --> 01:03:25,280
devil's den i think it's something

1612
01:03:28,470 --> 01:03:27,119
everybody should read and i'm honored

1613
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:28,480
that you've come on the show

1614
01:03:31,990 --> 01:03:30,160
where can our listeners go to support

1615
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:32,000
you and keep up with everything you have

1616
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,240
going on

1617
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:36,400
yeah i have a website it's terry

1618
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:38,000
lovelace

1619
01:03:43,910 --> 01:03:42,160
you know one word terry publix dot com

1620
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:43,920
i don't keep the website up to date

1621
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:45,760
unfortunately i'm lazy but

1622
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:47,920
but there's some amazing photographs on

1623
01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:51,359
there for people to look at

1624
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:54,160
and my book is available in kindle and

1625
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,280
paperback with photographs in the back

1626
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,119
and i made an audio book that i recorded

1627
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:01,440
my own voice so

1628
01:04:05,829 --> 01:04:03,200
and they're all on amazon and only on

1629
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:10,870
so i also have a second book

1630
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:14,309
that needs to be out there and i hope to

1631
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:15,599
have that out soon

1632
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:19,440
soon being a couple of months um

1633
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:20,720
you know if you're interested in the

1634
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:22,960
topic read the book

1635
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:26,799
and decide for yourself

1636
01:04:30,870 --> 01:04:28,559
and i appreciate the opportunity to be

1637
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,880
here thank you

1638
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,640
thank you terry i can't wait to talk to

1639
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:34,160
you again we have to it's

1640
01:04:38,710 --> 01:04:37,119
it's just you do such a great job of

1641
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:38,720
explaining what happened and we're so

1642
01:04:42,309 --> 01:04:40,480
thankful for that all the best to you i

1643
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:42,319
hope we talk soon and take care my

1644
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:43,920
friend

1645
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:46,400
you too man take care bye-bye i'm

1646
01:04:51,190 --> 01:04:47,359
telling you guys

1647
01:04:54,309 --> 01:04:51,200
the attention to detail and the

1648
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:54,319
the experiences that terry had

1649
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:57,280
wow just a servant of the people as he's

1650
01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:58,640
always been

1651
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:01,280
throughout his career and he this this

1652
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:02,400
has this has bled

1653
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:05,440
over into him explaining this

1654
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:08,480
experience and what what a quality

1655
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,359
individual

1656
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:11,520
what quality writing and what a blessing

1657
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:13,200
to have him on the podcast can't can't

1658
01:05:16,549 --> 01:05:14,880
thank him enough

1659
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,559
got some new merchandise coming some

1660
01:05:19,910 --> 01:05:18,559
baby products uh we're going to

1661
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:19,920
affiliate with because that's what i'm

1662
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:20,400
about

1663
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,160
babies right now babies and the

1664
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:24,480
paranormal so i want bulletproof stuff

1665
01:05:27,029 --> 01:05:25,359
that i can uh

1666
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:27,039
i can do what i need to do with the baby

1667
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:28,559
and still you know

1668
01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:31,680
rely on quality that i expect

1669
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:35,280
and uh we will bleed that over to our

1670
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:36,000
listeners

1671
01:05:39,750 --> 01:05:37,599
and our fan base because this stuff's

1672
01:05:42,549 --> 01:05:39,760
good stuff and i back it

1673
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:42,559
it's good anyway um until next time keep

1674
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,680
your eyes to the skies

1675
01:06:45,190 --> 01:05:45,359
feet on the ground but don't forget to

1676
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:47,270
we partying back to the future like

1677
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:48,240
michael j

1678
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:51,359
fox i thought she feel some type of way

1679
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,720
but it ain't gonna change a thing with